Some Lurene Tuttle

Peary, Tetley and Tuttle from 1941's Great Gildersleeve

Rare Great Gilderleeve stuff (including second fiddle Eve Goodwin!)

Lurene Tuttle photo dump

Pairing of Peary and Tetley was a magical match

From my original article in the March/April "The Radio Times."

Bud Abbott and Lou Costello. Lum and Abner. Fibber McGee and Molly. Burns and Allen. Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy. Martin and Lewis.

Those are probably some of the names you think of when you reflect on great comedy teams. There's no doubt why you do; for each one of the above teams were not only funny, they had incredible sustainability and lasted many years. Not only that, each of the above has a consecrated place in the National Radio Hall of Fame.

There's a another pair however, that's not considered a "team" by classic definition. Harold Peary and Walter Tetley were together 9 years on the comedy show, The Great Gildersleeve.

Peary's background was that of a singer of Spanish melodies - not as an actor. However, he was armed with a trademark bellowing voice and made his way up from early radio baritone to a 1937 fill-in on the big NBC hit show Fibber McGee and Molly, to having his own sitcom (the first sitcom spin off in history.)

Here's what happened: Gildersleeve played many parts but finally went to writer Don Quinn and asked to settle in on just one weekly role. Quinn wrote in the character Throckmorten P. Gildersleeve who would be McGee's next door neighbor. Everything about the character would be big: his belly, his name, his voice and Quinn gave him a girdle factory to run -- a pun about rotund people, itself.

Only after about a year on Fibber McGee and Molly, Peary was actually getting applause when he entered on the show- - something no other character was getting. He and Fibber would play off each other and accuse each other of stealing and other terrible things, almost coming to blows before Gildy would say, "You're a harrrrrrrd man, McGee" - and that is he became known for when he worked on that show. His rascally laugh too, a trademark that has endured generationally.

In the NBC spin off, The Great Gildersleeve, Peary played the part of a bachelor father figure to a family that was not his own. This is a contradiction in itself because Gildersleeve was actually a child-like character, more content at having fun (singing, dating, kissing!) than working his tedious job as Summerville's Water Commissioner. He never took his job seriously as he was always late for work (always!), often played hooky and was "stuck behind the eight ball." Though I don't think he ever said this, I think Gildy actually hated his job.

The non-nuclear family aspect was a very unique concept in entertainment when the show arrived in 1942. Gildy's new family consisted of his teenaged niece Marjorie (played by another veteran actress Lurene Tuttle) and a very bright, early teen in the hyper-dimensional Leroy (Tetley.)

Girded with a part-Scottish, part Brooklyn accent and with the ability to use words to cut as sharp as a razor, Tetley contrasted well against his oafish, probably-Midwestern uncle. Gildersleeve was not the father - just a figurehead and Leroy was not the son, just a facsimile - a nephew (the son of Gildersleeve's sister.) Despite the fact they barely knew each other, Gildy and Leroy had a special relationship from day one in every sense of the word.

At the age of 7, Tetley was a star, bringing in a bundle of money. By age 16, Tetley was a minor superstar radio veteran having already amassed some 2,800 broadcasts. When Tetley got the job as Leroy he was like the cleanup hitter for the New York Yankees as far ability goes. He had been lauded nationwide as a notorious scene-stealer. Whenever he guest starred on a show the cast and audience loved him and the biggest actors and show began asking specifically for him to appear and Tetley made the rounds at both NBC and CBS on a regular basis. And while Tetley played a smart-alecky brat on all the dozens of show in which he appeared, he did it with perfect comedic timing.

Tetley and Gildersleeve both had impeccable timing. This is especially true of Tetley, who was actually quite older than he appeared to be (there's a story out there that says his mother actually had him castrated so that he could play child parts forever and keep bringing in the money.)

Leroy loved to catch his uncle doing anything that wasn't quite appropriate for an elected official to do and would almost always call him out on it, publicly or privately. Leroy's enjoyment of doing this flustered Gildy so badly he would often clamor, "Hmfph oh! Lee-eee-eee-roy...." -- much to the delight of the studio and listening audience.

One time, Leroy and Gildy had planned a trip -- but right before time to go, Gildersleeve's fleeting flame Lila would coerce "Throcky" into taking her shopping because her car was not running.

"I'll give you anything you want, Leroy", Gildy would beg, "If I can just break our date!"

"Anything, Unc?" This would allow Leroy to victimize the gigantic pants off of Gildersleeve, something he did with regularity.

Whenever Gildersleeve would be caught in a faux pas, Leroy would joyfully say, "What a character!" , right to his uncle's face. Somehow, Leroy got away with saying and doing all kinds of little naughty things like this. He was picked up by the police, he got into fights, he harassed the younger neighbor kid. He'd con kids out of their skates and brand-new magic sets. Boil it down and you find Leroy was a Tom Sawyer-type kid but with the wit of no radio character before him (and aside from Arnold Stang and Groucho Marx, none after him.) He was aware of the fun of manipulation and the power of psychology. He was not a bad boy or a delinquent, by any stretch of the imagination. It was just that inside of him was both a conniving con man and a rogue tattletale yet paradoxically, he was also an assailable, breakable, fatherless child.

If Gildy had a plan, Leroy was there to destroy it. Gildersleeve realized soon after moving in with the two kids that Leroy was going to be someone he would have to keep an eye on. Leroy often ran amok and had the audience enjoying it right along with him. Though it was easy for the audience to like Gildersleeve, Leroy made it even more fun to see Gildersleeve fail. This might be because he was big -- no, make that great. The Great Gildersleeve. And there is some sort of Freudian joy in seeing a big man fall. Leroy was the perfect foil (of many) for the pear-shaped Casanova GIldersleeve.

The verbal rapport between the two seemed natural.  They were not  about taking turns telling jokes or puns, nor was one setting up the other for a big punch line.  They would have been one of the greatest - maybe THE greatest comedy team in history had they had actually become one -- the resonance between the two simply seemed real.  And when you get two real characters together, you often find magic.

Though the two characters did not have a father and son relationship, it was obvious that the two loved each other.  There were no arguments that ended with, "You're not my father! or "You're not my son!"  Leroy actually needed the stern hand of Gildy and oddly, Gildy needed to be brought down to earth by the constant vigil of Leroy.   Both lived up to each other's needs and this is what made The Great Gildersleeve seem real and fun.  

Of course all of that came to an abrupt end when Peary left NBC for CBS.  Everyone else seemed to be jumping the NBC ship and Gildy wanted the big money that CBS was handing out, too.  It backfired - maybe one of the biggest backfires in show business history as Peary thought the show would go with him.    Kraft, the sponsor, had a long relationship with NBC and declined the move.  Peary and Tetley were no longer part of the same family anymore.

Each went their different ways and each was successful, albeit, Tetley more so than Peary.  But neither found another like each other again.   Magic, after all, doesn't last forever.

©Jimbo 2010/2011

She got: personalities (Lurene Tuttle)

Bonus podcast plus!

Here's something really unique: a podcast about Lurene Tuttle playing twin sisters; first hear from Lurene herself as she speaks about The Whistler episode called, "Death Sees Double."  Then, hear the actual episode, sans commercials and then you can read about how Lurene did it, complete with photos.

How's that for bang for your buck?  Just a little treat from me as I start a new era of podcasting today.  Enjoy!



Download it!

©Jimbo 2010/2011

Morning Walk: Actors and multiple roles on radio

"Boston Blackie" - as you may know - is the blog's biggest fan and I try to get him to write here as much as possible.  His ideas are always interesting and thought-provoking. 

He's agreed to occasionally share those thoughts with us. He allows me to join in.

Boston Blackie: Hey, Jimbo, have you thought about how many actors or actresses played more than one part on the same radio shows?  John Brown played Riley’s neighbor Gillis and  Digby (Digger) O'Dell. the shoveling undertaker.  On radio you could do this as there was no visual.  A twist of a voice and zoom,  a new character.  I think I recall a show where someone played three different characters.  Not only did they play more than one character in a show, but, often they did other shows during the week.  John Brown had to play in Life of Riley and The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet (as Thorny) during the same week.   I would think that Walter Tetley must have done more than one show a week.  While doing the Great Gildersleeve he must have been on the Phil Harris and Alice Faye Show.  Was Gale Gordon ever on Fibber McGee & Molly at the same time as Our Miss Brooks?  In addition it seems like Howard McNear was on Gunsmoke, but also played on the Casebook of Gregory Hood.  I would be interested in knowing if this was true.  Jimbo, you are our resident book keeper of old time radio, maybe you could verify this?  Also, can you think of other actors which played multiple parts?

Jimbo:  As far as actors doing multiple shows at the same time:  we know this to be true for not just a few actors and actresses but literally dozens - maybe hundreds.  It was a cost-cutting move for the studios and was done quite often.  Some actors and actresses were more proficient in playing multiple roles - using different characterizations and voices - while others were pretty much the same, no matter what part they played.

Recall that not too long ago, I wrote of Lurene Tuttle playing at least 7 female parts in one CBS Workshop production (although actor John Gibson recollected that Tuttle played 14 parts - all German women.)  Here's a sample of her playing two of those parts:

Howard McNear

You spoke of John Brown - while he was doing the two parts on The Life of Riley he was also playing the part of Broadway on The Damon Runyon Theatre.  And he was also Dennis' boss A Day in the Life of Dennis Day during this same time. On Dennis Day's show, he often played another part that may have been needed as well, I can think of a couple instances where he did that.  And yes, he was also Thorny on The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet.  In 1951, you probably could hear John Brown at least 20 times a week if you listened to everything on the radio.

 

That's really only the tip of the iceberg.  Howard McNear, another one you spoke of, was not only on Gunsmoke but at the same time played many a victim or a fellow in the line-up in the show, The Lineup.  He's in almost every show.  I heard one show the other day where he wasn't on the show at all, but one of the guys in the lineup gave his address as xxx(whatever) McNear Street - probably as an homage to McNear, who like I said, was on practically every show in one capacity or another.

For fun, let's examine 1952 for Howard McNear.  This is only a list of what we have records of - I am certain there are many, many more not in this list:

• Gunsmoke. April 26, 1952. CBS
• Family Theatre. April 30, 1952. Mutual
• Tales Of The Texas Rangers. May 4, 1952.  NBC
• Gunsmoke. May 10, 1952. CBS
• Tales Of The Texas Rangers. May 11, 1952. NBC
• Tales Of The Texas Rangers. May 18, 1952. NBC
• Gunsmoke. May 24, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. June 7, 1952. CBS
• Night Beat. June 19, 1952. NBC
• The Line-Up. June 24, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. July 1, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. July 5, 1952. CBS
• Tales Of The Texas Rangers. July 6, 1952. NBC
• The Line-Up. July 8, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. July 15, 1952. CBS
• Family Theatre. July 16, 1952. Mutual
• Gunsmoke. July 26, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. July 29, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. August 2, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. August 5, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. August 16, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. August 23, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. September 10, 1952.
• Wild Bill Hickok. September 19, 1952. Mutual
• Gunsmoke. September 20, 1952. CBS
• The Roy Rogers Show. September 25, 1952. NBC
• Gunsmoke. September 27, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. October 3, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. October 8, 1952. CBS
• The Roy Rogers Show. October 9, 1952. NBC
• Gunsmoke. October 10, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. October 15, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. October 17, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. October 22, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. October 29, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. November 5, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. November 12, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. November 14, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. November 19, 1952. CBS
• Gunsmoke. November 21, 1952. CBS
• The Line-Up. November 26, 1952. CBS
• Wild Bill Hickok. November 28, 1952. Mutual
• Gunsmoke. December 20, 1952. CBS
• Suspense. December 29, 1952. CBS

Notice that he was on CBS, NBC and Mutual - probably all three networks on one day, several times in his career.   I chose McNear and the year at random.  Another random look at Lurene Tuttle, William Conrad, Joan Alexander - well, the list is endless - would provide similar or more startling results.

Boston Blackie: I knew if I asked the resident ‘book keeper’ of old time radio I would get the facts.  I find this to be interesting that actors or actresses could do all this work.  In today’s world we have actors doing about 13 episodes and that is it.  True they are one hour shows and they need to be on screen, but, think of the money they get now days as to what I suppose the pittance they got back during the 40s.  I am also intrigued by the number of actors that were able to play more than one part in a show.  I wonder if they were fairly compensated for such things?  

Another facet to this whole topic is that when television began, how many of these stars never became part of that world?  For example the radio Boston Blackie Richard Kollmar did not star in the television series.  It was Kent Taylor.  There are numerous other examples of this.  Again I am sure our resident ‘bookkeep’ of old time radio is well aware of these situations.  You would have thought it would be a natural progression for the radio stars to move over to television.  In some cases this was true, but, for many it was not.

JImbo:  Were radio actors compensated for doing multiple roles?  I have listened to a lot of interviews and have never heard anyone talk of making extra money for doing multiple roles.  An actor like McNear would generally get $30-$50 for an appearance.  He might say one word or 1000 words - play one part or twelve parts.  That was probably just part of the radio union contract - but I'm not certain about that.

Still, most actors made a nice living.  Imagine playing 10 shows in one week - that was at least $300.  And they didn't even have to go to rehearsal - but they had to provide a stand-in.  Break that down and these bit actors (like McNear) were making big money when you look at it from 'per hour' angle.

While there are cases of radio shows turning over to TV in the same or very close to the same cast (Our Miss Brooks, Abbott and Costello, Dragnet are just some examples) many others did not turn over the same cast (Fibber McGee and Molly, Amos 'n' Andy, The Great Gildersleeve, etc. )

John Dehner

Boston Blackie:  Great stuff Jimbo.  What is interesting is that a big radio actor like John Dehner did not play Have Gun Will Travel on television and William Conrad did not play Matt Dillon on TV’s Gunsmoke.  Both big time, yet, probably did not fit the image of the characters for television.  Both did some work on television, but could not land these roles.  Their voices allowed them to play these roles on radio, but, there physics did not lend themselves evidently to the television series.  I just find this as such an interesting facet between the two media vehicles, radio and television.  These two could play rough guys on radio, but not so for television.  I think these two actors portray the problem others had in radio to do the same thing.  You could not get much bigger than Conrad or Dehner in the radio era. 

Jimbo: That's true.  As a side note, did you know Have Gun Will Travel was a TV show before it was a radio show?  I think that's the only time that happened, at least in 'The Golden Age' of radio.

©Jimbo 2010/2011

Lurene Tuttle: Singer?

Radio's Sam Spade

Just so you are not confused, this happens to be 2 different articles on the show.

Photos that make you go, "Hmmmm..."

©Jimbo 2010/2011

An interview with Harold Peary

I listened to an interview with Harold Peary last night that took place in the early 1970's.  I took some notes and thought I would share with you some fascinating items:

• Most of the origin of the Great Gildersleeve program came from Peary himself.  Though he was married, he was also raising a nephew and a niece and had "a colored house-keeper named, 'Birdie' "
• Though the audition was sponsored by Johnson's Wax, Mr. S.C. Johnson did not like the program and refused to buy it.  One month later, Kraft Foods bought the program.
• Lillian Randolph (Birdie) was also Madame Queen on Amos 'n' Andy.
• Lurene Tuttle was in her early 30's while playing Marjorie and was embarrassed to do so.
• Una Murkel played the part of Lila Ransome for a short time while Shirley Mitchell had a baby.
• The first year of the Great Gildersleeve program saw them pitted against Elenor Roosevelt on CBS - and beat her out by almost 3 rating points!
• In the 1930's Chicago was the center of radio production, not Los Angeles or New York.
• On the Tom Mix show, he played 7 different characters.
• Peary often played the part of the dog on Little Orphan Annie and Tom Mix.
• It was Peary who did the voice for Gooey Fooey on Fibber McGee and Molly.
• When Peary lived in Chicago, the name of the street he lived on was called, "Throckmorten" and suggested this name to writer Don Quinn.

©Jimbo 2010/2011

An interview with Lurene Tuttle

I listened to an interview with Lurene Tuttle made in the early 1970's and it impressed me a lot, so here are some of the notes I took...

• She said Cary Grant was one of the finest radio actors she ever worked with
• She said Arch Oboler was her favorite director to work with because he simply told her to make the characters "Human"
• She said "Comedy writers are the smartest people in the world."
• She said the greatest ad-libber of all was Red Skelton.  He would often jump off the script but would always land back on the script where he was supposed to be.
• She said Howard Duff (as detective Sam Spade) and herself (as Effie, his smart secretary) ad-libbed a great deal as well.   She played the Effie character 1950-51.
• Early radio was great because many of the shows were about historical and inspirational characters.  She lamented the fact that post-1950's radio had gone away from this.
• She said she once played 7 German women characters on one show.
• She named her daughter after Joan Crawford, an actress she really respected.
• She once played idental twins (one good, one evil) for an episode of The Whistler.
• She was often introduced as "The first lady of radio."

©Jimbo 2010/2011

Interviewing Donnie Pitchford about Lum and Abner

Donnie Pitchford is the President of the National Lum and Abner Society (and webmaster of that same site.)

He's a walking encyclopedia of Lum and Abner information and I am very honored he did this extensive interview with myself this past week.

If you are a fan of Lum and Abner, I am pretty sure this interview will make you say, "Well I'll swan to goodness!" -- that is to say, Donnie did a fabulous job.



OTR Buffet:  Thanks so much for doing this interview with me.   Can you tell us a little about the National Lum and Abner Society and a little about yourself?

Donnie Pitchford:  Thanks for asking! The NLAS was organized almost 30 years ago when Sam Brown of Illinois, Tim Hollis of Alabama, Rex Riffle of West Virginia and I got together and decided to do something about preserving the history of the "Lum and Abner" radio program. I contacted Chester Lauck Jr., who owns the trademark to the title "Lum and Abner," and he granted permission. Tim Hollis became the editor of our publication, "The Jot 'Em Down Journal," and starting in August 1984 we were up and running, publishing bimonthly, or six times a year.

Beginning in 1985 the NLAS held an annual convention in Pine Ridge and Mena, Arkansas, and we were blessed to have some incredible guest stars each year. I don't want to turn this into a mini-encyclopedia, but let me say we had actors, announcers, writers, producers, etc. who'd worked with Lum and Abner, either on radio or in films (or both). You can check our website (www.lumandabnersociety.org) for more information on many of these folks.

After our 20th NLAS Convention, we decided to take a break. It was almost impossible to find guests who had worked with "the old fellows" by this time. We also decided in 2007 to cease publication of the "Journal." Tim was simply too busy to carry it on, and both Sam and I (Rex resigned in 1991) were as busy as could be with our jobs and family illnesses. Our webmaster was a fine gentleman named Jim Temple, and he'd established a website even before there was in Internet, I think, so I proposed an "online Journal" and started building it in 2007, but I was still very busy otherwise. Jim, sadly, passed away early in 2010, about the time I retired from my teaching and broadcasting job, so I expanded the "Journal" site into our current NLAS site.

As for myself, I retired in January 2010 from my then-current job after 25 years of teaching broadcasting and producing radio, television and Internet programs for Carthage ISD in Carthage, Texas. For more information on that, I invite you to visit my "CHS-TV" website at www.chstvpitchford.com.  Incidentally, part of CHS-TV's work included a 1995-2010 OTR radio series we called, for want of a better title, "The Golden Age of Radio" (maybe there IS no better title). My students would research, write scripts, announce vintage music and OTR shows, and edit the programs. We started live on our local cable access channel (using audio only to simulate radio) but from 2004-2010 we produced a one-hour show 52 weeks a year for KZQX-FM here in East Texas. Sadly, that station canceled all their OTR programs right about the time I retired (I'd hoped to be able to produce it privately for them).

Right now I'm working with Argo Press in Austin, Texas on a magazine called "Charlton Spotlight" which celebrates the history of a comic book company often thought of as "the bottom rung" in the industry, but one that produced some great material and gave a start to some of the finest talents in the business. So far I've done a lengthy interview with editor and Popeye artist George Wildman, I've painted the cover and before I started visiting with you I finished part of a painted advertisement. (My original college major was art.) Argo's editor, Mike Ambrose, is working on a new website which can be viewed at www.charltonspotlight.net. I expect everyone reading this to buy everything listed there. (Only kidding!)

OTR Buffet:  Please tell me how you first got into OTR and some early memories you have of radio?  And how did you get into Lum and Abner?

Donnie Pitchford: I was born in 1958, so I barely remember the final days of radio drama. It fascinated me, and I wondered why my mother's old radio-phonograph, a Zenith with a "Cobramatic" tone-arm (it looked like a snake!), was able to pick up what I thought were TV programs. We didn't have a TV set for a time, and she'd have the radio on as I was wandering about. This memory goes back to age two or before.

Later, when I'd see "The Lone Ranger" or "Sky King" or "Amos 'n' Andy" on TV, my mother would say, "I used to listen to this on the radio." Finally, I asked, "You mean they played TV shows on radio?" and she explained what had been puzzling me since my diaper days:  "No, they were shows just acted out for the radio. This is before TV was invented." I immediately though of the Disney "Uncle $crooge's Money Rocket" 45 I had, or a couple of 78s, which featured audio stories, and the connection was complete.

When I was about eight, my dad took me to a Lum's Restaurant in Memphis (where we lived at the time). I ordered one of their big, juicy hot dogs (and was somewhat shocked to read "steamed in beer" on the menu, thinking I'd be drunk in a few minutes) and asked my dad, "What kind of a name is 'Lum' anyway?" and right then and there he told me all about the old "local Arkansas" radio show he heard with his family, "Lum and Abner." He compared it to "The Beverly Hillbillies" and "The Andy Griffith Show" and I was instantly curious. I asked if some of these old shows might have been recorded, and he said, "Oh, no, that was just an Arkansas show, and they didn't have tape recorders back then. It was all live."

OTR Buffet: Take this question anyway you'd like to: what's the proper way to listen to Lum and Abner?

Donnie Pitchford:  "With both ears flappin'," to quote a character from "Amos 'n' Andy."  No, to be honest, I suppose the right mood would be created in a semi-darkened room, possibly feeding the recordings through the big speaker of a floor model vintage radio, and hearing one 15-minute show per evening. Actually, that's almost the way I first heard them, because they were being aired one per weekday. It is fun to get a "daily dose" that way, and wonder, "How will they get out of this?" for the next 23 hours and 45 minutes, but being realistic, I've listened to lots of them while driving or doing all kinds of work around the house. I'd say any way a person feels most comfortable listening is the best way for him or her.

OTR Buffet: I wonder if you feel like I do - that the 30 minute show (late 1940's) is inferior to the serial?

Donnie Pitchford:  Well, I don't want to say "inferior" because there are lots of fans of the half-hour show out there and I certainly don't want to offend them. I'll say it's "different." Personally, I prefer the original "strip show" format of 15-minutes three, four or five days a week (whatever the schedule was at the time). Those programs took a little getting used to because I'd heard a half-hour show first, plus I was accustomed to the pace of programs like "The Jack Benny Program" and "Fibber McGee and Molly." Once I caught on, I got really interested in the 15-minute shows, and couldn't wait for the next episode.  I like the half-hour shows also, but I prefer the original format. Apparently so did the listeners in 1948-50, since it didn't last.  Here is a true story. Roz Rogers, their head writer for many years, said they got mail from some folks who asked, "Who are all those people laughing in the Jot 'Em Down Store on these new shows?" Apparently some folks actually believed they were hearing situations broadcast from a general store!

OTR Buffet:  I'd like to know your first memories of the show and what got you interested in it?

Donnie Pitchford: Well, I finally started finding OTR recordings in the mid-70s, first on LP and then on reels. A local Longview, Texas radio station was running an OTR type program and I was hooked. On March 12, 1977 (coincidentally Tim Hollis' 14th birthday) I found a "Lum and Abner" LP! I was pretty excited, even though the program (one from 1950) didn't do much for me.

I took a break from college to work and when I went back, in the fall of 1980, I found the Stephen F. Austin State University radio station was running OTR. The faculty manager was a gentleman named Dr. Joe Oliver, who later became a member of the NLAS and a good friend. For Halloween, he ran several programs to fit, one of them being the 1944 "Lum and Abner" Halloween show, which I recorded on cassette. In the summer of 1981, my dad discovered the show was running weekdays on KHYM, a Christian AM station in Gilmer, Texas, and I rigged a timer and cassette recorder to capture them, and after a few weeks I was hooked. They were into the storyline about Diogenes Smith at that time.

OTR Buffet: Lum and Abner go through a variety of crazy side-businesses. What are the ones that stick out to you and some recollections of those?

Donnie Pitchford: I just mentioned Diogenes Smith, and I have to say that era stays with me, when Lum wants to get into the publishing business and so on. In 1992 we unearthed the big collection of transcriptions and I started transferring the original Horlick's discs to tape, so some of those businesses are strong in my mind, like the era of the circus, the movie theater, and the rolling grocery store.

OTR Buffet: Since Chester Lauck and Tuffy Goff (Lum and Abner) do most all the voices, we really never get a chance to hear Cedric and Lum having a conversation (and there are a variety of other conversation we never get to hear because of the fact there are only 2 people doing the voices.) Would you consider this a hindrance to the show in any way? And if you would, can you tell us what kind of conversations you think Lum and Grandpap or Lum and Cedric would have?

Donnie Pitchford: I have to disagree a bit here, because there are some shows where Chet Lauck had to carry on alone, and also some where Abner did the same. If they planned ahead, they might have an outside actor like Jerry Hausner or Clarence Hartzell to come in and assist, but I've heard several where one person carries the entire show. Tuffy Goff once said his problem was he couldn't swallow and saliva would collect in his mouth, so he'd arrange for a sound effect like the ringing phone to break the ongoing talk so he could swallow.

Those men were incredible, because I've heard programs where just the two of them create what sounds like six or seven people arguing! Their timing was excellent.

That doesn't answer regarding what type of conversations they'd have, but I think the programs themselves will answer that. I can't pinpoint a specific date, but they're in there.

OTR Buffet: Do you have a favorite character?

Donnie Pitchford: Wow, that's a tough one. I think I am partial to Squire Skimp because I impersonated him several times for our convention scripts. He's a colorful con man, and Tuffy's voice for him was masterful. I've often wondered why Tuffy didn't go into the business of voicing characters for animation. He certainly had the talent for creating varied voices. And I'm not trying to slight Chet Lauck either. When I try to pick a favorite character, it makes my head hurt! I will say that I preferred Mousey Gray over Ulysses S. Quincy. When Mousey left for the army, I felt Ulysses was a poor substitute.

OTR Buffet: Lum is very egotistical. As a matter of fact, if he weren't "Lum Edwards" I am afraid we really wouldn't like him - just for the fact that he is so full of himself. Listening everyday, you can tell that Abner knows he's not as smart as Lum but he also knows Lum is not near as smart as he thinks he is. Could you tell us what you think Abner actually thinks of Lum and vice-versa?

Donnie Pitchford: Jimbo, you're getting deep! Wow. I think Lauck and Goff, and later Roz Rogers, tended to adjust the characters a bit depending on the situation at hand. For example, early on, Abner seemed to stand back in amazement at Lum's "out-loud talkin'" ability, and his "lawyerin'" talent. Later, Abner might be more cynical. He went from praising Lum's public speaking to moaning about "that same ol' speech."

Perhaps they allowed Abner to "wise up" a bit as the years passed. I think, generally, Abner felt he often had the upper hand on Lum, and he was able to see Lum's vanity, and more than once he was able to shoot down one of Lum's "big idies," but generally I think he loved Lum like a brother. Both would fit the "man-child" category I think. They were naive enough to get into some humorous jams, but wise enough to eventually get out of them.

OTR Buffet: To some extent, Dick Huddleston and Squire Skimp (both pretty intelligent characters on the show) kind of ruin the fun when they are around. Dick will talk Lum (or perhaps Abner) out of some stupid plan he's got cooked up and Squire does basically the same thing (albeit in an entirely different way.) Who played the character of Dick Huddleston and why is he missing for years and years?

Donnie Pitchford: You probably know this, but Dick Huddleston was a "real person" who knew "the boys" when they were young men. Dick ran his own general store in Waters, Arkansas, and Lauck and Goff based many situations on this little town. In 1936, thanks to Mr. Huddleston, Waters' name was changed to Pine Ridge! One of our most exciting finds was a set of 12-inch discs containing the network broadcast of that event, recordings thought lost for decades. On radio, Tuffy Goff portrayed Dick Huddleston in his natural voice.

Roz Rogers told us they decided to keep Dick in the background more, and for the very reason you mentioned. Every time Lum got a new "big business idie," Dick could walk in and say, "Why, Lum, you can't sell stock like that!" or "Lum, you can't open a bank without a charter!" and so on. In fact, I didn't hear Dick until one day KHYM ran the episode where Lum, I believe, walks across the street to visit a travel agency Mousey and Cedric have set up. He speaks to Dick in passing. Of course, a bit later in the 1940s Dick returns in storylines reused from 1930s scripts, like the time L&A are trapped in a silver mine cave-in. I always enjoyed hearing Dick on the show. For a time I worked with a guy named Dick, and amazingly, he sounded so much like Tuffy Goff that when I hear the shows I picture this former coworker!

OTR Buffet: Whatever happened to Mary, the girl that Abner adopted? After that happened, she might have shown up in 4 or 5 shows - then as far as I know, was never heard of again. Any idea what happened there? Any idea who played the part of Mary?

Donnie Pitchford: Of course, she started out as Ellie Connors, and she'd escaped from a state home for girls, a sort of orphanage or reform school, perhaps. They started calling her "Mary Edwards" and pretending she was a niece to Lum, I think. That was a touching series. And yes, we know who played her. It was the incredible actress Lurene Tuttle. Miss Tuttle was in several episodes. You probably remember her as Nurse Lunsford, Sgt. Hartford, the mother of the abandoned baby, and I'm sure other parts. As for what happened to her, I think they allowed her to fade into oblivion because I don't remember the story being resolved. I asked Tim Hollis and he replied, "Seems like we talked about the Ellie/Mary non-ending before, but as I recall they never actually wrote her out... sort of like how Phinus was never written out until a year or more later when Abner thought they were near Brentwood, Tennessee and wanted to visit him."

Actually, Mary did return, but it was in 2004, and she was portrayed by Dick Beals! At the REPS Showcase, one of the scripts was performed, directed by Dick Beals, with Art Gilmore and Ed Scott announcing, Frank Buxton as Lum, Dick Beals as Mary and Speedy Alka-Seltzer in an added commercial, Ray Erlenborn on sound effects, Bill Edwards (Sam Edwards' son) performing the music, and some no-talent bum named Donnie Pitchford playing Abner.

Let us not forget two major "Lum and Abner" anniversaries coming up in April. On April 26, the "Lum and Abner" program turns 80, and the town of Pine Ridge, Arkansas will be 75!

OTR Buffet: You might not like me after this but I was not a fan of the whole Diogenes Smith stories. I'm not really sure why, either! But I don't like them. How do you feel about Diogenes - do you like him - and if not - do you feel that way about any character or storyline?

Donnie Pitchford: I won't hold it against you, but that was one of my favorite series. Possibly it's because it was the first one I heard. Diogenes was played by an actor named Frank Graham who returned to do other roles. Perhaps you felt he was something of an "intruder" into the shows. I have a friend who felt the same way and didn't enjoy them at first, but when he heard them a second time he loved them.

To be honest, at first I disliked Ben Withers. I had only heard him in the half-hour shows, and I found him too strange and out-of-place. He didn't have an Arkansas accent. He was irritating to me. Two things happened. First of all I heard some of the original shows where his character was introduced, then I met Clarence Hartzell, the actor who played the part. I woke up one day saying, "Ben Withers is okay after all!"

I must say I wasn't overly fond of Dr. Snyde, and was glad to see him leave the series. There was a "slow" period in there where we were getting into the Golden Era Discussion Club, and Ulysses was saying "Okay" over and over, and I missed the momentum of the earlier programs somehow.

OTR Buffet:  I really hate to even bring this up but I feel like I have to.  I thought all the Lum and Abner films were just terrible.  And I wish I had never seen them because in a way they ruin this picture I had in my head of them.  How do you feel about the films in general and have they messed with your imagination about the show?

Donnie Pitchford:  I've spoken to others who feel the same way. I don't see them as "terrible," but "different." At least Lauck and Goff played their main characters, and in a couple of the films they borrowed from the radio series for some of the situations. I like the films, for the most part, but I understand what you're saying. Remember it was tough for Lauck and Goff to try to present a visual version of their characters and locations. To me, nothing "looked right." I'd heard the shows and it was jarring to see these guys in makeup. After several years, it's easier to accept, of course. I will say we've had a marvelous relationship with some of the folks who were in the films (Bobs Watson, Louise Currie, Jerry Hausner, Kay Linaker and Shirley Lauck Babcock) who have been our convention guests, and the screening of the films was always a success for us in Mena. They were also shown out in Pine Ridge when Lon and Kathy Stucker who operate the Lum and Abner Museum were involved in a Lum and Abner Weekend for many years.

To me, watching the films is similar to listening to the half-hour show. I can also compare it to my interest in comic strips, comic books and animation. I consider the 15-minute shows "the real Lum and Abner" and the others to be "adaptations." It's the same with the character of Popeye. The "real Popeye" is the one who was in Elzie Segar's comic strip from 1929-38. Everything else is "an adaptation."

OTR Buffet:  Sometimes the show would go through different sponsorships and when this happened they often went back and rehashed some old scripts.  I suppose back then that wasn't a big deal but listening at the pace we can and do today, this flaw is easily recognizable - especially when they gave no memories like, "Oh remember when I faked my broke leg that time..." (etc.)  My question is, do you think this hurts the show's credibility at all with today's critics?

Donnie Pitchford:  It probably does, but we have to realize Lauck and Goff never expected the series to be preserved and rerun decades later. If a modern critic is bothered by the repeated scripts, he or she needs to have been in my broadcast journalism classes and studied the history of radio. In fact, send them to me now! I'll straighten them out!

I'm kidding, of course, but I think the longevity of the program indicates it was a winner, and in many ways we need to be thankful they did repeat some scripts, because otherwise some stories would be lost forever, since not all the programs exist today.

OTR Buffet:  Have you looked at the Lum and Abner Dictionary?  What do you think and do you have any new words to offer up?

Donnie Pitchford:  I have run across it, but to be honest, I need to go over it in detail. I was impressed with what I saw, and if I can think of some new words I'll let you know.  As Lum said, the only words Mr. Webster left out of his dictionary were "ain't and ort!"  I think it's an excellent idea. I tried to start one myself years ago, but didn't get far. Another idea I had was to establish a Pine Ridge Phonebook, listing all the "rings," but I think I found they reused various rings for different characters!

OTR Buffet:  Thanks Donnie for the interview, I had a lot of fun!

Donnie Pitchford:  So did I! Please contact me again, any time, if you have additional questions. If I don't have the answers, I can find someone who does. I'll be sure to add links to your offerings on our site, and I invite everyone to check us out. It's free to join! "Wonderful World!"

©Jimbo 2010/2011