Interview with Adam Graham (The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio)

I am honored today to have Adam Graham answering a few questions, Mr. Graham runs the nicely done, "The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio" website and podcast.

OTR BUFFET: Tell us a little about yourself and about your website.

Adam Graham: Well, for me, old time radio started indirectly with a Dragnet spoof on the Kids Math show Square One when I was a kid.  This got me interested in the 1960s TV shows, which I watched for a while on Nick at Nite. Then, when it went off Nick at Nite, I spotted some of those deceptive looking DVD sets that have a picture of Joe Friday and Frank Gannon on it but really feature 1960s TV episodes. I liked the 1950s TV episode but quickly found I'd watched all the ones I could find and then on Ebay I found a DVD with 300 episodes of Dragnet on it. 300 episodes! I bought that as quick as I could. Knowing what I know now, it was a bad deal on poor quality 24kbps encodes that I could have gotten for free. However, I was just very happy to be able to listen to Dragnet.

In 2007, I was getting into podcasts and it occurred to me that Old Dragnet episodes would make for an interesting podcast and that others would enjoy the episodes. So, I charged off into the wilds of podcasting with the Old Time Dragnet Show, made a few mistakes (mainly because I didn't know what I was doing), got some helpful criticism, some surpringly nasty comments, and found the difficulties of 24kbps recordings. The sound quality got better as I discovered higher quality encodes of Dragnet, and Andrew Rhynes came on board as my volunteer sound engineer.

Anyway, bit by bit, we built up a great audience from all over the world that liked the show and enjoyed my company as I shared what I was passionate about, and I got a lot of demand to do other Old Time Radio Detectives, particularly Johnny Dollar. I really had not listened to other OTR Detectives, but stumbled onto a few and fell in love with the genre. In 2009, I had an idea for a new podcast called, The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio. My initial idea for the show needed work. I figured we'd podcast five episodes a week, Monday-Friday and go completely through a radio series. I figured to start off with Pat Novak for Hire.

After recording 15 episodes, I realized the model wouldn't work well, because different detective shows appeal to different people. If you Podcasted through Pat Novak for Hire and then you did Sherlock Holmes, you'd lose a bunch of audience. So, I went with a different format. Every day, Monday-Friday would be a different detective.

The initial lineup was Monday-Box 13, Tuesday-Pat Novak for Hire, Wednesday-Let George Do It, Thursday-Sherlock Holmes, Friday-Yours Truly Johnny Dollar. Our Mondays and Tuesdays have changed quite a bit. (Barrie Craig currently is on Monday and Tuesday is Rogue's Gallery) but Wednesday-Friday won't change for quite a while yet. In addition to this, every 50 episodes, we do a Special on Saturdays with a Mystery episode of Suspense, Lux Radio Theater, or some other program.

Our main website not only includes the show notes and the actual radio episodes, but also articles on the weekend, and I really write about a variety of things, but everything ties into detective stories, old time radio, classic television, or classic movies.

Beyond the website, I'll say that I'm a Writer with a day job living in a townhouse with my wife and cat. :)

OTR BUFFET: What's your favorite detective shows and why?

My top three would be Philip Marlowe with Gerald Mohr, Dragnet, Let George Do It, and the Johnny Dollar serials with Bob Bailey.

Gerald Mohr really brought the character of Philip Marlowe to life, with this embodied balancing of contradictions. His Marlowe is a bundle of contradictions. The writing is spot on and the opening of the show can't be beat.

Dragnet is just so well done with some groundbreaking storytelling methods, great sound effects, and the most fascinating minor characters you can imagine. Webb had a great talent for getting his listeners interested in every minor character. We would laugh, we would cry, or do whatever we were supposed to do. Joe Friday has got great lines to close episode and every so occasionally delivers a classic speech.

I love Let George Do It because it really was unique. The show often walked the line between soft boiled and hard boiled schools of detective. Some plots from Let George Do It could easily have been Philip Marlowe stories, while others could have been adapted for Sherlock Holmes. The writing is usually spot on, with the talent of Jackson Gillis (who would later write for Colombo) and great chemistry between Bob Bailey and the two Brooksies (Frances Robinson and then Virginia Gregg) with Wally Maher often providing the perfect police foil in Lieutenant Riley.

I love the Bob Bailey Johnny Dollar serials because they are usually much more complex stories with a lot of twists, and usually fairly good cliffhangers.

OTR BUFFET: The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes is one of my favorites.  I love Basil Rathbone as Holmes but I almost like Tom Conway just as much.  What is your opinion of those two and the show in general?

Adam Graham: Tom Conway was definitely a downgrade from Basil Rathbone, there’s no question about that. Rathbone was a true talent, a master actor of stage and screen who was more than Sherlock Holmes. In fact, listening to the last season with Rathbone, the writers worked in a lot of parts where Rathbone had the opportunity to demonstrate his true talent through various accents and occasionally doing a stage role as part of the radio play.  But Conway made the downgrade a much smaller one. He did hit a stride after the first few episodes, and with a voice that sounded a lot like Rathbone’s and he and Bruce began to work fairly well together. Conway had a tough act to follow and he did it admirably.

The Sherlock Holmes radio franchise as a whole is fun because it allows us to see Sherlock Holmes in adventures nowhere else chronicled. While Doyle’s original stories are great, they can also become well-worn. These “New Adventures” really bring the character to life and for that reason will always be a favorite.

OTR BUFFET: What is your opinion of humor in detective shows?  Which detective do you think was the most humorous?

Adam Graham: Humor takes many forms in old time radio detectives: from the wisecracks of the hardboiled eyes to the uncharacteristic chortling of Nero Wolfe to the romantic interplay between the Abbotts or Mr. and Mrs. North, humor is present in the vast majority of shows. As long as it’s not stupid or inappropriate, it definitely is a bonus.

In terms of the most humorous detective show, I’d say without a doubt, it’s Pat Novak for Hire. Other hard boiled detective may throw out a half dozen similes in an episode like they were using a revolver to fire them, Pat Novak is a machine gun. There are dozens of prime quotes in every episode, add to that, the inebriated pontificating of Jocko Madigan, and you’ve got quite a combination.

OTR BUFFET: Obviously, both radio and film detectives were affected by the pulps.  My question is, do you feel like radio affected films more or vice versa?

Adam Graham: I think films had more impact on radio. Take for example, the hard boiled detective genre which Dick Powell launched on the radio in 1945 with Rogue’s Gallery.  Hard boiled detectives had been popular in movies since The Maltese Falcon had been released years before. To the extent that one affected the other, radio was the one that copied from the movies.

OTR BUFFET: What's the best detective show we should be listening to but probably aren't?

Adam Graham: If you haven’t listened to, Let George Do It, you should. It’s not as well known as other detective show due to it being a West Coast only syndication, but you’d have to search hard to find a better one for reasons listed above.

If you do listen to Let George Do It, then I would recommend the very unique series, A Life In Your Hands which features as its hero a rich lawyer who steps into cases as an Amicus Curiae (Friend of the Court) and with the permission of the judge, cross-examines and calls witnesses without working for either prosecution or defense but simply to get at the truth. It was an interesting concept.

OTR BUFFET: Do you consider the newspaper crime fighters to be detectives?

Adam Graham:  As long as they’re dealing in crime and mystery on a regular basis, I’m on-board. It really doesn’t matter whether a crime’s solved by Philip Marlowe or Randy Stone (Nightbeat). While the newspapermen aren’t detectives by professions, if they do the same work as a detective, then it works for me. I do make a distinction between  crime drama shows like Big Town and mystery programs like Night Beat, which are really the best analog for detective shows.

OTR BUFFET:  Who is your favorite female actress in radio detective old-time radio?

Adam Graham: In terms of character and supporting actresses, I’d have to say Virginia Gregg. As a character actress, Gregg could be made anybody. She could just as easily play a teenage girl or an old lady as a femme fatale. She also was the 2nd Brooksie on Let George Do It and played girlfriends to Richard Diamond and Bob Bailey’s Johnny Dollar. It’s hard to imagine what radio detective shows would have been like without her.

In terms of leading actresses, I tend to think most of Alice Frost as Mrs. North and Mercedes McCambridge in Defense Attorney. Frost played Mrs. North as this very sweet and feminine, but also very clever and daring person that made her a great amateur detective. McCambridge’s acting skill and voice talent are very unique and it’s a shame that we don’t have more episodes of Defense Attorney in circulation due to the fact that it broadcast over ABC.

OTR BUFFET: Do you consider the Lone Ranger and Challenge of the Yukon to be detective shows?

Adam Graham: Elements of detective mysteries will show up in the darnedest places. On radio, I’ve heard episodes of the drama series, Mayor of the Town which had elements of detective fiction in it. Ditto for Superman. On television, many episodes of series such as Star Trek or MacGyver, that have strong elements of the detective story in it. These elements are borrowed a lot because they work. It shows the influence of detective fiction beyond strict detective stories.

I tend to look at a series and ask what the series is really about. Is it about someone whose major thing is unraveling mysteries or is the occasional mystery somewhat incidental to the overall plot? Mayor of the Town is a family drama, Superman is a juvenile superhero adventure show, Star Trek is a science fiction series, and Macgyver is an Adventure Series. I feel we could similarly categorize the Lone Ranger and Challenge of the Yukon.

However, I’ll be the first to acknowledge that these are some of the shows that people could spend forever debating. I know Thrilling Detectives considers Have Gun Will Travel to be a private eye series. It’s a fun discussion with good arguments on both sides.

OTR BUFFET: Who are the 5 best radio detectives?

Adam Graham: Recently, I did a series of blog posts where I ranked the best detective shows by Network. I would follow somewhat with that. I think in the list, you’d have to have Philip Marlowe, Dragnet, and Let George Do It. In addition, I would add Yours Truly Johnny Dollar and Richard Diamond to the mix.

OTR BUFFET:  Thank you Adam for your answers and your time!

Adam Graham: Thanks so much. Always a pleasure. 

©Jimbo 2010/2011

Review: Pat Novak For Hire

There's a reason why I do a feature now and then called, Stuff Pat Novak Says; the show, Pat Novak For Hire is one of radio's best-written. It was written by a man named Richard Breen, who just happened to be Jack Webb's roommate in 1946 when the show began.

Webb was perfect for the role, providing just enough wit when he spat out line after line of quotable soliloquy. Unlike other shows that did nearly the same thing (Broadway is My Beat, Jeff Regan Private Investigator, et al) Webb's portrayal gave the prototype noir feel to Detective Novak, so typical of the film detectives of the same era, when film noir was at it's height.

Pat Novak was the most hard-boiled detective that ever roamed the coast of San Francisco. Every show started the same: a foghorn in the distance - you could imagine looking across the foggy Bay and seeing the Golden Gate Bridge and Alcatraz. Then he'd walk a bit and descriptively tell you how he rented boats to make ends meet.

Novak's descriptions never left you guessing what he saw or imagined:

"The veins stood out in his face and made a pattern as if he slept on an alligator bag instead of a pillow."

"The sky was the color of a bruised spot on a man's arm."

"He was crumpled up against the desk and she was staring down at him as if she forgot to water the plants."

"It was a pretty room, if you like dead women on your rugs. She was stretched out in a pale, yellow dressing gown, as quiet as an April morning and twice as pretty."

"His head was over to one side, and his body was twisted over the other way, as if he couldn't make up his mind which direction to die in."

"She stood leaning there for a minute, sort of a girl who moves when she stands still. She had blonde hair. She was kind of pretty, except you could see somebody had used her badly, like a dictionary in a stupid family."

"She was wearing black lounging pajamas, tied tight around her slim waist. She looked like a wasp with a nice sting."

"I watched her as she turned and walked out the door. She was wearing a flowered print dress, and as she walked, the roses kept getting mixed up with the daisies. She walked with a nice friendly movement, like the trap door on a gallows."

"When I came in, she was sitting on my couch drinking my whiskey. Hmm. She could have all wanted. A 1949 Panther model. Just the right amount of size 12 in a dress that looked like a well-tailored fig leaf. When she was through looking at you, you looked like the Sunday supplement."

The cynical Novak character was able to say "dirty" things out loud, without actually saying them. The potency of his words could conjure up many startling images to those who actually listened to him, some dark, some light. There was never a censor problem because the words were pure art; only a dirty mind would provide a dirty thought to what he said.

Webb, in his first radio crime play, ripped a new seam in the world of delightful figures of speech.  The show was so good it was canceled and it came back to life in 1949 and in between the time that it was axed, it came back with the same writer, star and director as the exact same show with different character names and a different show title in "Johnny Madero, Pier 23."

The show obviously had a giant cult following that demanded the show return each time it was cut down. And listening to the program (when Webb was the star) provides the answer why.

The stories were all just there in order to allow the metaphors to exist. The cases that Novak had were all pretty much the same: find a man, find a woman. Sure, he'd have to board a train one time or check another part of town - but the same formulas existed in every episode. The show lived and breathed on the relentless one-liners.

Eventually in 1949 the show changed a bit after the cancellations and in it's return and grand entrance on ABC radio. Novak was played then by Ben Morris. Novak also had an assistant (Jocko Madigan) and a steady foil (Police Lieutenant Hellman who was played by Raymond Burr.)

But it wasn't the same at all. Webb's words were dynamite while Morris' were firecrackers.

In it's heyday, a fine show, so very typical of the films of the era.



©Jimbo 2010/2011

Stuff Pat Novak says [#19]

"That's too much dough unless it's murder. And if it's murder, it's not enough." -  461124 Dixie Gillian, Pat Novak for Hire

Stuff Pat Novak says [#18]

"I began to think about the .32 caliber pistol. It's a woman's weapon - well, that doesn't prove anything, so's a bread knife if she's in a bad mood." 
 - 490306 Fleet Lady, Pat Novak For Hire

Barely surviving: Great shows with not enough episodes

There are thousands of series of shows out there that none of us have heard.  You'd be surprised to know just how many there are.  Most we will never hear because they are lost forever.  And some just have a few surviving episodes, enough to whet our appetite and make us want more.

Here's my short list of those I have heard but wish there were more:

Dr. I.Q. - The Mental Banker:  There are just 3 known surviving episodes but all are fun to the max.  The silver dollars, the candy bars and "I have a lady in the balcony."



Dear Adolph - All surviving episodes exists - but there were only 6 made. A stirring program about actual letters written to Hitler by people in various walks of life.

Here's an sample of the last episode, "Letter From a Foreign-born American":



Johnny Madero, Pier 23 - Essentially an intentional rip-off of Pat Novak For Hire (they could be twin brothers) by the same writers, using Jack Webb as Johnny Madero! There are only 2 surviving episodes but aside from the name and the opening/closing, this is Pat Novak For Hire, period.



Incredible But True: There are actually quite a few of these available but they are so short (about three and a half minutes long) and zip by so fast, you miss it as soon as it's gone. A really cool show that if they had made a thousand episodes and all were available, it still wouldn't be enough.




©Jimbo 2010/2011

Stuff Pat Novak says [#17]

"Mike was a tall, wide package, so I gave him a bargain offer. He didn't fold after two, but he had a kind of hurt look in his eyes when I hit him a third time, like I didn't know he could take a hint. 

When he wound up and hit the floor, every window in the house rattled and I figure the Berkley seismograph got a cheap thrill." 

- 490612 Georgie Lampson, Pat Novak for Hire

Stuff Pat Novak says [#16]

"The best trouble always looks good from the outside." 
- 490306  Fleet Lady, Pat Novak For Hire

Stuff Pat Novak says [#15]

"When I came in, she was sitting on my couch drinking my whiskey.  Hmm.  She could have all wanted.  A 1949 Panther model.   Just the right amount of size 12 in a dress that looked like a well-tailored fig leaf. When she was through looking at you, you looked like the Sunday supplement."
                                             - 490220 Jack of Clubs, Pat Novak For Hire

Morning Walk: Stuff "Boston Blackie" thinks about [#01]

My friend "Boston Blackie" seems to be a bit like me in that he is preoccupied with old-time radio a lot. He may not listen to it all the time but he thinks about it all the time - something I certainly find myself doing more and more.

He's agreed to occasionally share those thoughts with us. Here's the first installment of "Morning Walk."


What Is So Charming About Old Time Radio?

I asked this question to myself on my morning walk.  The first thing that came to my mind is the sex content, or lack of it.  Well, not really lack of it, but, just simplified.  We get a daily dose of more raw sex in our daily tv shows and the movies we might go and see.  But, in old time radio we get kisses.  Yes, kisses.  I really get a kick of the Cisco Kid who often kisses the young maiden at the close of the show.  That is it, a kiss.  No jumping in the bed and you know what after that.  But, the Cisco Kid kiss is just as moving.  Other ways OTR handles sex is by ‘Stuff Pat Novak says'.  He describes the young gals he meets with descriptions of their shapes and color of the hair and whatever.  No bed jumping, though.  Same goes for the other detectives.  Philip Marlowe is what I call the ‘Great Describer.’  He paints the pictures of sunset, sunrises, ocean waves and the young ladies.  But, that is far as it gets.  We know these detectives have interest in sex, but, at best, the hint of something that might happen and we never find out. 

Another charm of old time radio is the way violence is handled.  Only on occasion are things blown up.  But nothing like the tv show Hawaii Five-O where things get blasted regularly and rely on shock value.  Not so for OTR.  Oh, our beloved detectives get hit on the head over and over and over again.  They wake up, say it hurts and move on.  I hate to think of the concussions they suffered and quality of life they suffer in later years.  But, it is not done for shock value.  TV seems to try to out-do each other to the extent of violence they can show.  Bodies are carved up and shown to the viewer.  OTR just has detectives hit in the head.  Yes people are shot, but, they just drop.  Violent, yes.  But, at the same time not shocking.  They are shot but not for shock value.  Even then, how many people did the Lone Ranger ever blast to their death?  I do not think it was many.  You can go to bed after listening to any of these shows and not have nightmares as you might get from watching Criminal Minds. 

Somewhat related to the charm of OTR is the word ‘gay.’  Every night I hear someone mentioning gay.  Gay was not what it means today.  I do not need to tell you what today's definition is.  Back during the time of OTR, gay was used routinely for those that are happy.  I believe My Favorite Husband used the word for every opening of the show.  The gay couple.  Yes, the gay couple.  Isn’t that charming???  Now, you would raise an eyebrow.  (By the way, I have nothing against ‘so called gay couples’ as known today.  But, just pointing out it is kind of charming to see how often that work was used in otr shows. ) 

©Jimbo 2010/2011

Stuff Pat Novak says [#14]

"I woke up with a head the size of Rhode Island. I rolled over and tried to get up, but I was about as strong as a moth in a wind tunnel. The room was dark and I couldn't see very well. There was a stale, musty odor, could have been a marathon dancer's dressing room, with a little fixing up, the sort of place you wouldn't be found dead in.

There was a guy lying next to me who didn't feel that way about it. One look at the guy and I could see he was dead from the crew cut down. Somebody had wrapped a towel around his throat and forgot to say 'when.'"
- 490327 Joe Candono Blackmail Pictures, Pat Novak For Hire

Stuff Pat Novak says [#13]

"Her voice came right out the oven."
- Pat Novak for Hire 49-05-22

Give Envelope to John St. John

Stuff Pat Novak says [#12]

"The one in the door was a big guy with bushy eyebrows that met near his nose, and the way they ran across his face, you got the idea he got tired of the old ones and grafted on a vine instead. His face wasn't much better. It looked more like a relief map than a face. It was pockmarked and the color of moldy bread. And you knew if a woman kissed him, she'd get blood poisoning."- 490507 Shirt Mix Up At Laundry, Pat Novak For Hire

Stuff Pat Novak says [#11]

"I watched her as she turned and walked out the door. She was wearing a flowered print dress, and as she walked, the roses kept getting mixed up with the daisies. She walked with a nice friendly movement, like the trap door on a gallows."- 490515 The Geranium Plant, Pat Novak For Hire

Stuff Pat Novak says [#10]

"She was wearing black lounging pajamas, tied tight around her slim waist. She looked like a wasp with a nice sting."- 490306 Fleet Lady Pat Novak for Hire

Stuff Pat Novak says [#09]

- Pat Novak For Hire, 490605 Agnes Bolton Case

Stuff Pat Novak says [#08]

- Pat Novak For Hire
episode 400528 Lola Madden Killed on a Train
(unavailable program)

Stuff Pat Novak says [#07]

- Pat Novak For Hire episode 400528 Lola Madden Killed on a Train (unavailable program)

Stuff Pat Novak says [#06]

 "She stood leaning there for a minute, sort of a girl who moves when she stands still. She had blonde hair. She was kind of pretty, except you could see somebody had used her badly, like a dictionary in a stupid family."  - Pat Novak for Hire in 490402 Father Lahey, Joe Feldman

Stuff Pat Novak says [#05]

"His head was over to one side, and his body was twisted over the other way, as if he couldn't make up his mind which direction to die in." 

- Pat Novak for Hire in 490402 Father Lahey, Joe Feldman

Stuff Pat Novak says [#04]

"It was a pretty room, if you like dead women on your rugs. She was stretched out in a pale, yellow dressing gown, as quiet as an April morning and twice as pretty." 

- Pat Novak, Private Investigator 490423 Rita Malloy